Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
[00:00:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Kelly and I both knew from the beginning that we wanted to do this as a Kickstarter.
[00:00:21] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, we've both been in the industry for so long.
[00:00:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Kickstarter is a relatively new model for publishing.
[00:00:27] [SPEAKER_02]: And we both knew we wouldn't know what to do on our own whatsoever.
[00:00:31] [SPEAKER_02]: So, uh, so we hired on the help of, uh, David Hyde and his crew at Superfan Promotions
[00:00:36] [SPEAKER_02]: and they've been absolutely invaluable, uh, to help, uh, shepherd us through all this.
[00:00:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Um, and, uh, first time out of the gate, um, of course we were an unknown
[00:00:47] [SPEAKER_02]: entity. We had to form a, uh, publishing, uh, entity and it is Orlok Press, uh, named
[00:00:54] [SPEAKER_02]: after Count Orlok.
[00:00:56] [SPEAKER_02]: The-
[00:00:56] [SPEAKER_00]: I should, I should point out that this is an audio podcast and Matt is pointing to his
[00:01:00] [SPEAKER_00]: hat.
[00:01:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, oh, okay. So the hat doesn't matter. There we go.
[00:01:03] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I appreciate the hat, but-
[00:01:08] [SPEAKER_02]: So, uh, Orlok is named after Count Orlok, the, uh, the name of the vampire in Nosferatu,
[00:01:13] [SPEAKER_02]: the first unauthorized adaptation of Dracula.
[00:01:18] [SPEAKER_02]: And we didn't want to get too, uh, too ahead of ourselves insofar as merchandising and the
[00:01:23] [SPEAKER_02]: sort of stuff we were offering with the campaign. So we kept it all to a very artsy kind of level.
[00:01:28] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, we did several different variations of the book itself, uh, two regular editions,
[00:01:33] [SPEAKER_02]: one with Kelly's cover art, one with my variant cover art, and then a limited signed and numbered
[00:01:38] [SPEAKER_02]: edition, uh, limited to 666 copies. Uh, and then we did a, uh, we did an art portfolio, an 11 by 17
[00:01:47] [SPEAKER_02]: art portfolio with black and white prints from, uh, uh, offset prints from Kelly's interior artwork,
[00:01:54] [SPEAKER_02]: uh, obviously black and white minus the color. And, uh, and that all went very well. Uh, and then,
[00:02:00] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, second time around, we wanted to branch into some merch. So this time we have, uh,
[00:02:04] [SPEAKER_02]: a line of, uh, I forget if it's 10 or 11 t-shirts and, uh, and one really cool, uh, hat with the
[00:02:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Orlok logo on it.
[00:02:11] [SPEAKER_01]: I just wanted the freedom of a Kickstarter. Matt knows all other good stuff and the technical and
[00:02:17] [SPEAKER_01]: the ease, he's good at all that stuff, or at least knows what the questions will be when I, I,
[00:02:23] [SPEAKER_01]: I just wanted complete freedom and publishers would never accept what we were doing, rightfully so.
[00:02:32] [SPEAKER_01]: Um, so I was all geared towards the freedom of it. At this point in my career, I just wanted to,
[00:02:39] [SPEAKER_01]: I just wanted to do the things that had always kind of been rattling in my head, go to the places I
[00:02:45] [SPEAKER_01]: always wanted to go. And Matt was writing it and I thought that this, this would be the absolute best
[00:02:50] [SPEAKER_01]: place to be able to show what it was I wanted to do. Um, and I always, I, I, I, that was work with me.
[00:03:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that was the reason if I was going to do it, it had to be with someone who would, uh, give me
[00:03:09] [SPEAKER_01]: that kind of material that I as a fan would want to read.
[00:03:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Kelly and I have been pals for decades and we've always been dancing around a big project together.
[00:03:18] [SPEAKER_02]: They've always been saying to each other, we got to do something together someday, blah, blah, blah, blah,
[00:03:21] [SPEAKER_02]: on and on. And finally, about three years ago, I had posted something and Kelly posted that same
[00:03:28] [SPEAKER_02]: response. And, but at that point I had been stewing on this idea of, of what I would want to do with a
[00:03:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Dracula project for a long time and finally hit on what I thought was a really unique take. And so I
[00:03:39] [SPEAKER_02]: contacted him and said, are you serious about this? Cause I think I got the perfect thing for both of us.
[00:03:44] [SPEAKER_02]: And, uh, but it'll take a commitment. I want it to be a big project. So like at least four graphic
[00:03:49] [SPEAKER_02]: novels, one per year. So we're looking at, you know, anywhere between five and six years of our
[00:03:54] [SPEAKER_02]: lives here spent on this. So luckily he was the right spot at the right time. And I was too.
[00:03:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I, I had always admired everything Matt was doing because it was free. It was completely what
[00:04:04] [SPEAKER_01]: he wanted to do. I enjoyed everything he was doing and I envied that. I wanted to do, uh, I've,
[00:04:12] [SPEAKER_01]: I've been that before, but not like the way Matt does it. So, um, when you get that opportunity,
[00:04:18] [SPEAKER_01]: when the opportunity came and it was this project and everything it he's right, it all fell into
[00:04:23] [SPEAKER_01]: alignment. Um, when he first asked, I thought it would be Batman or like Grendel or something like
[00:04:28] [SPEAKER_01]: that. When he first said, I got this idea. I thought, well, that's probably what it is. I had no idea it
[00:04:33] [SPEAKER_01]: is going to be Dracula. And when I, he told me, uh, you know, and I wondered, uh, what can you do
[00:04:42] [SPEAKER_01]: with that? And then he just started telling me and I went, this is completely brand new territory.
[00:04:47] [SPEAKER_01]: It's all in Canon, but it's brand new territory. And it completely, uh, was in the territory that I
[00:04:54] [SPEAKER_01]: wanted to go to. Um, not to, it's vampires or whatever. Uh, Matt wrote what Matt wrote was a
[00:05:01] [SPEAKER_01]: character so good, so well drawn at exactly what he does anyway. Then let's say so good at being bad.
[00:05:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's some Jessica rabbit stuff. Yeah. It was just, it was just the, uh, the supernatural
[00:05:16] [SPEAKER_01]: vampire aspect was extra. The, if he never did that, it would be good. If, if he just said,
[00:05:22] [SPEAKER_01]: this is who he was and we're not doing any vampire thing, it was outstanding.
[00:05:28] [SPEAKER_02]: And of course that was one of the challenges of book one, the impaler, uh, you know, it's all
[00:05:32] [SPEAKER_02]: about his origins of becoming a vampire. Well, you know, somebody comes to a Dracula book,
[00:05:36] [SPEAKER_02]: they want to see vampire shit and we don't, he doesn't really become a vampire until the end
[00:05:41] [SPEAKER_02]: of that first volume. So it was really, really the pressure was on to make sure that he still felt
[00:05:47] [SPEAKER_02]: like the same guy, the same character that he still had the same level of, uh, sinister
[00:05:52] [SPEAKER_02]: intent and, uh, uh, dangerous possibility and, uh, and was very recognizable as the Dracula. We all,
[00:06:00] [SPEAKER_02]: uh, know and loathe, you know,
[00:06:02] [SPEAKER_00]: I wanted to pull on a thread that, that Kelly mentioned earlier. You said, uh, publishers
[00:06:07] [SPEAKER_00]: would never accept what we're doing and maybe tongue in cheek said rightfully so, you know,
[00:06:11] [SPEAKER_01]: what? No, no. Tongue out of cheek.
[00:06:15] [SPEAKER_00]: What specifically are you referring to that you feel like no publisher in their right mind would
[00:06:20] [SPEAKER_01]: have jumped at? Well, number one, Matt wrote an authentic character without any agenda other
[00:06:25] [SPEAKER_01]: than this guy lived in 1470. Right there. Then...
[00:06:30] [SPEAKER_00]: When, when, when you say agenda, you mean politics or...
[00:06:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's a challenge to try and keep modernity out of it, you know?
[00:06:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. And, and I thought that... Not from, uh, uh, uh, uh, pain in, pain in characters that we
[00:06:44] [SPEAKER_01]: approve of now. Yeah. I, I found it completely interesting because it was a world I didn't
[00:06:49] [SPEAKER_01]: know. And I think for anyone reading or watching or anything, when you're put into a world you
[00:06:55] [SPEAKER_01]: don't know, and it was a real world, that becomes absolutely fascinating because, because then,
[00:07:02] [SPEAKER_01]: then it's its own thing. At that beginning, you, at that point, you also begin to trust
[00:07:09] [SPEAKER_01]: that anything can happen and you can't predict what's going to happen and there won't be anything
[00:07:16] [SPEAKER_01]: other than the story being served. That's it. Number one, story served. And take, as an artist,
[00:07:22] [SPEAKER_01]: taking a story, the number one thing you look for is, is that story, story, story, story.
[00:07:28] [SPEAKER_01]: And everything else will fall into place. Once you begin entertaining people, that's all they want.
[00:07:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Avoiding that modernity was particularly, uh, uh, pertinent here in the second book,
[00:07:38] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, with the brides. Um, of course, the second book is called The Brides, book two,
[00:07:43] [SPEAKER_02]: The Brides. And, uh, of course it is about the brides of Dracula who appear in the book,
[00:07:49] [SPEAKER_02]: in the, in Bram Stoker's original 1897 novel. And they are such a, uh, uh, such an enchanting,
[00:07:57] [SPEAKER_02]: uh, presence that they show up in almost every film adaptation. And they're on, they're in the
[00:08:03] [SPEAKER_02]: book for four pages, five pages at most. Hardly, Andy. Yeah, hardly. And, uh, you know nothing about
[00:08:09] [SPEAKER_02]: them yet. They're so indelible that, uh, uh, they keep showing up. So that too was a fascinating
[00:08:15] [SPEAKER_02]: thing. See, again, what we're trying to do here is not do the novel itself in all four of these
[00:08:20] [SPEAKER_02]: graphic novels. You will not see an adaptation of Bram Stoker's original novel. We're not going to see
[00:08:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Harker go to the castle. We're not going to see Van Helsing, no Mina, no Lucy, et cetera.
[00:08:31] [SPEAKER_01]: That totally shocks me, Matt, that you still say that. Cause I'm like going, how is he going to do
[00:08:37] [SPEAKER_02]: that? Well, there's so many little scintillating hints in the novel that, that, and so much that
[00:08:43] [SPEAKER_02]: is left unexplored because Dracula isn't on screen very much in the novel or on stage,
[00:08:47] [SPEAKER_02]: whatever you want to say. Um, uh, so we take those little bits and expound upon them. For instance,
[00:08:52] [SPEAKER_02]: in book one, uh, uh, Stoker has Van Helsing mentioned twice that Dracula attended something
[00:09:00] [SPEAKER_02]: called the Scholomance, which is a Romanian legend about a seminary for the dark arts that Satan himself
[00:09:06] [SPEAKER_02]: hosts way up in the mountains and the tenure is every seven years. And he takes on 10 students.
[00:09:11] [SPEAKER_02]: And at the end of the tenure, he keeps one of the students. And I just thought, and that's,
[00:09:16] [SPEAKER_02]: it says Dracula attended this. And I just thought, how the hell has nobody ever done anything with
[00:09:22] [SPEAKER_02]: this? You know, that's, that's a, that's a, uh, that's such a wide open narrative, uh, uh,
[00:09:28] [SPEAKER_02]: well to draw from. Um, similarly in book two, we have these three women who are the brides of
[00:09:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Dracula and almost nothing is revealed about them. The only hint we have about any of them
[00:09:39] [SPEAKER_02]: is that one of them seems to be a little more aristocratic or upper class because the other
[00:09:43] [SPEAKER_02]: two defer to her when it's time for feeding. They say it's your right to go first. And, uh,
[00:09:49] [SPEAKER_02]: and that's it. And so that too provided this just deep well of, uh, stuff I could do. Now,
[00:09:54] [SPEAKER_02]: at the same time, as I said, trying to avoid this modernity, I had to make sure I had three different,
[00:10:00] [SPEAKER_02]: very different women, three different motivations behind these women, three different reasons
[00:10:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Dracula would choose these women. And, uh, and yet I couldn't make them contemporary women. They,
[00:10:11] [SPEAKER_02]: they, uh, couldn't really, uh, there was a recent Dracula comic, which I won't name,
[00:10:19] [SPEAKER_02]: uh, that I read, uh, cause of course I read anything Dracula can get my hands on.
[00:10:23] [SPEAKER_02]: And, uh, and it starts with them rebelling and, and, you know, uh, uh, uh, binding him into his
[00:10:30] [SPEAKER_02]: coffin and, you know, the girl power, they win the day. It's just like, okay, well that's feeding
[00:10:36] [SPEAKER_02]: a modern agenda into this, uh, into this, uh, narrative that doesn't really ask for it, you
[00:10:40] [SPEAKER_02]: know? So even though these women are very distinct and have very, uh, uh, I would say strong
[00:10:47] [SPEAKER_02]: personalities, there's no denying that, uh, that he's the Lord of the manor, you know, he does not
[00:10:52] [SPEAKER_00]: view them as equals. He doesn't view anybody as an equal. It's interesting that, you know, you use the
[00:10:56] [SPEAKER_00]: word enchanting. Cause I, I think, and I, I think this is canonical, definitely correct me if I'm wrong,
[00:11:00] [SPEAKER_00]: but I think one of the few things that we know about them is that they eat babies.
[00:11:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, that's just one scene. Dracula brings them a baby in one scene, but that's a hard,
[00:11:09] [SPEAKER_00]: that's a hard personality wise. Yeah. Personality wise. It's a hard line to walk to make them like
[00:11:16] [SPEAKER_01]: likable enchanting characters who maybe eat babies. Yeah. Yep. Uh, you know, I'll tell you what I've,
[00:11:24] [SPEAKER_01]: I based the brides on three women. I know and I let them don't eat babies, but
[00:11:30] [SPEAKER_01]: yeah. I'll let Kelly answer that. I let them read it. I would do that. All of them are absolutely
[00:11:37] [SPEAKER_01]: blown away by Matt's presentation of these women. They all love it. But with this present,
[00:11:43] [SPEAKER_02]: that's the, that's the conundrum is how do you, how do you portray a character who does horrible
[00:11:47] [SPEAKER_02]: shit all the time? Yet you kind of like him now, you know, I've written Grindel for 40 years,
[00:11:52] [SPEAKER_02]: so I have some, I have some experience with this, you know? Yeah. And I think, uh, for them,
[00:11:56] [SPEAKER_01]: it read authentic when they read it, they go, yeah, that it was absolutely in the word
[00:12:03] [SPEAKER_02]: enchanting fits. And all the best villains, we love all the best villains, you know,
[00:12:07] [SPEAKER_02]: there are certain villains like, uh, you know, Leatherface and, uh, uh, uh, um, Michael Myers,
[00:12:15] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, who aren't sympathetic at all. You don't really like those characters. They're just big
[00:12:19] [SPEAKER_02]: rampaging, uh, uh, kill machines, you know? Yet there are characters like, uh, uh, Darth Vader
[00:12:25] [SPEAKER_02]: and, uh, Hannibal Lecter and Tony Soprano is the perfect example of some of a monster that you love,
[00:12:33] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, every time during the Sopranos that you start to really dig Tony, they have him do
[00:12:37] [SPEAKER_02]: something monsters to remind you, no, no, no, no. He's Brad guy, really bad guy. And well,
[00:12:43] [SPEAKER_01]: none of them, you know, none of those guys thought they were monsters and neither. Yeah, exactly.
[00:12:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Yep. I mean, that was the whole thing of the Sopranos is they had their own
[00:12:51] [SPEAKER_01]: moral code as dubious as it was. Um, yeah. And, and at least for me, when, when you have to draw a
[00:13:00] [SPEAKER_01]: character like this, um, it's wonderful to be able to understand him because of the context Matt puts
[00:13:07] [SPEAKER_01]: in it. Uh, the time, the, what was at stake, who he was, all those things make him come alive.
[00:13:15] [SPEAKER_01]: And at that point you can draw him. You, you can totally get in. I don't need to actually like a
[00:13:21] [SPEAKER_00]: character that I'm doing. I don't. In the case of Dracula specifically, and, and Matt, I've seen
[00:13:27] [SPEAKER_00]: some of the things that you've, um, you've said about writing the character that is a pretty purely
[00:13:33] [SPEAKER_00]: evil character, that it is a character that doesn't seem to have any particular redeeming
[00:13:40] [SPEAKER_00]: qualities. How do you make something like that or somebody like that three-dimensional?
[00:13:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, by remembering that at one point he was human, that he wasn't always a supernatural monster.
[00:13:49] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, there's a terrific point in the scenes with the brides in the actual novel where they're
[00:13:54] [SPEAKER_02]: just getting agreed to feed on Jonathan Harker, Dracula's, uh, uh, real realtor and guest at the
[00:14:00] [SPEAKER_02]: castle. And he appears out of nowhere, drives them back very angrily. And, uh, and they,
[00:14:07] [SPEAKER_02]: they all start to, uh, mule and whine about, uh, how you never loved us. You never loved us anyway.
[00:14:12] [SPEAKER_02]: You've never loved whatsoever. And, and he says, yes, I too have loved. Very brief little moment of a
[00:14:19] [SPEAKER_02]: human, of humanity peeking through this monster, you know, and that you can, you can still
[00:14:24] [SPEAKER_02]: stride that, stride that line without turning him into a romantic character. Like for instance, in the,
[00:14:28] [SPEAKER_02]: uh, uh, 93 Coppola version, you know, where, uh, there's this, uh, love affair between him and Mina,
[00:14:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Mina is supposed to be the resurrection or the reincarnation of his lost, uh, his dead wife,
[00:14:39] [SPEAKER_02]: uh, which is nowhere in the book at all. That's, that's an absolute fabrication for that film.
[00:14:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, so it is possible to portray monsters as, uh, as, uh, as human, you know, they all,
[00:14:52] [SPEAKER_02]: they all start that way.
[00:14:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. He may not call them wives, but he sure treats them like wives.
[00:14:56] [SPEAKER_02]: And again, as I mentioned there earlier, you don't really see much humanity in, in Michael Myers,
[00:15:00] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, uh, uh, you know, it starts with him as a little kid, like butchering his sister and
[00:15:05] [SPEAKER_02]: there's no real reason for it. You know, uh, leather face, you know, topping up people and
[00:15:11] [SPEAKER_01]: wearing their skins. There's no, there's no, you know, no reason why, you know, Dracula is killing
[00:15:15] [SPEAKER_01]: cause he has to. Yeah. They're killing cause they want to. Yeah. Although he does like,
[00:15:21] [SPEAKER_00]: he does like the blood. Those are, I think Michael Myers and, and leather face are particularly
[00:15:26] [SPEAKER_00]: interesting examples because those are both examples where the, the retroactively have
[00:15:33] [SPEAKER_00]: attempted to give them some kind of background and it didn't really work particularly well in either
[00:15:39] [SPEAKER_02]: case. Right. Right. And it didn't, it didn't work for Hannibal Lecter when, uh, Thomas, uh,
[00:15:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Harris tried to, uh, uh, humanize him, you know, um, it didn't work for Darth Vader when, uh,
[00:15:51] [SPEAKER_02]: when George Lucas tried to do it with him, you know?
[00:15:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I think, I think with Harris, it was, he was writing a parody because he was thinking
[00:16:00] [SPEAKER_01]: he was, he was sick of the popularity. Yeah. He thought it was silly. People thought Hannibal
[00:16:03] [SPEAKER_01]: was a, uh, and with Vader, they were going to sell Vader dolls. So that's the difference.
[00:16:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Matt's intent was here's this guy. We don't know much about him. The stuff we don't know would
[00:16:20] [SPEAKER_01]: be fascinating to, to know. Um, the stuff that he's doing, uh, is not based on the supernatural.
[00:16:28] [SPEAKER_01]: And when the supernatural comes, uh, in some ways it enhances him and in other ways it diminishes
[00:16:34] [SPEAKER_01]: him. So it's not based on the supernatural that you get this guy. This is who he was. He's not called
[00:16:40] [SPEAKER_01]: the impaler after he became a vampire. Right. Right. It's not the fangs.
[00:16:44] [SPEAKER_00]: No. You've brought up an interesting point in past interviews and both, both of you,
[00:16:51] [SPEAKER_00]: as I assume to a certain extent, kind of scholars of Dracula largely, but the, the Stoker book
[00:16:56] [SPEAKER_00]: in particular, that it's an epistolary and Dracula is like the one character whose point
[00:17:02] [SPEAKER_00]: of view you don't get.
[00:17:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Whose voice we don't get.
[00:17:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Do you get a sense of, um, why Stoker went that route?
[00:17:10] [SPEAKER_02]: What? Uh, to, uh, to, uh, to vilify him more. Again, if he would have given him a voice,
[00:17:18] [SPEAKER_02]: he would have humanized him more. He, he, you know, and of course Stoker's a Victorian
[00:17:21] [SPEAKER_02]: writer. You got to remember that he's, he too is a man of his time and place and, and
[00:17:24] [SPEAKER_02]: not, uh, not, uh, uh, prone to modernity, you know? Um, uh, uh, it's one of the reasons
[00:17:32] [SPEAKER_02]: that he keeps Dracula not only, uh, out of the, uh, written record in the book, but offstage
[00:17:38] [SPEAKER_02]: very often, you know, therefore he becomes more of a shadowy sinister presence rather
[00:17:42] [SPEAKER_02]: than, uh, an active kinetic force in the, in the, uh, narrative of what's going on.
[00:17:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Also what, what modernity he uses is technological.
[00:17:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Bront Stoker does, you know, he'll, and that's to say, that's to show that even in that modern
[00:18:00] [SPEAKER_01]: time, something like a vampire could exist. The classical vampire could exist even in that
[00:18:06] [SPEAKER_01]: modern times. And it's also the thing that draws Dracula from Transylvania.
[00:18:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. And it's also why the, you know, the, the band of heroes is so resistant to the thought
[00:18:17] [SPEAKER_02]: that it might be a vampire when once Helsing suggested at first, you know, as he said,
[00:18:21] [SPEAKER_02]: they are from the most, uh, the most glowing civilized nation on earth at that point, you
[00:18:26] [SPEAKER_02]: know, uh, the, the empire that on which the sun never sets and, uh, uh, you know, the,
[00:18:32] [SPEAKER_02]: the signs of modernity are the fact that Dr. Seward keeps his private journal on a, uh,
[00:18:37] [SPEAKER_02]: a gramophone and, uh, uh, uh, Mina, uh, knows shorthand and has a typewriter. So these are
[00:18:45] [SPEAKER_02]: all very kind of nods towards the modern age that's coming. And Dracula of course represents
[00:18:50] [SPEAKER_00]: the barbaric age that was, you know, I wonder if to a certain extent, Dracula works in Dracula
[00:18:55] [SPEAKER_00]: because you see so little of them. Cause again, getting back to the examples of, um, Leatherface
[00:19:02] [SPEAKER_00]: and Michael Myers, I think a big reason why those sequels didn't work is because they tried
[00:19:07] [SPEAKER_02]: to show too much of these characters. Uh, yeah, I mean, that's a, as I will admit, it's a danger,
[00:19:14] [SPEAKER_02]: dangerous path we've chosen here. Um, but, uh, the key is you just have to keep him what he is and what
[00:19:22] [SPEAKER_02]: he was. And I think we do, I think it's, it's still always recognizable Dracula. He doesn't,
[00:19:28] [SPEAKER_02]: his arc is not transformative, you know, his arc is, is eternal. You know, it doesn't really,
[00:19:34] [SPEAKER_02]: he doesn't start one place and end up another place. He's, he's just on the same path and
[00:19:39] [SPEAKER_01]: single-minded of purpose. What he started in his desire, he is still pursuing in his.
[00:19:45] [SPEAKER_00]: And he's also working on a different chronology than the rest of us being.
[00:19:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yeah. No, but, but the thing is, uh, some of the great sequences for me
[00:19:58] [SPEAKER_01]: have been these things where we expect him to be human and he will do things that look human,
[00:20:08] [SPEAKER_01]: but ultimately you always realize it's about his own best interest. Always. It's always. And,
[00:20:15] [SPEAKER_01]: and, uh, I think, I think the sequences in, in obviously hasn't come out yet, but in the brides
[00:20:20] [SPEAKER_01]: where he's in his own way courting them really shows those elements of him. It's, it's absolutely
[00:20:28] [SPEAKER_01]: fascinating to me. It was probably one of the best sequences in my career I've ever got to do
[00:20:35] [SPEAKER_01]: is the courtship scenes, um, with, with, and I will back that up. Yeah. How he, he, um,
[00:20:47] [SPEAKER_01]: he, in his own way, he just doesn't take, he's trying to woo in, and it's, and, but he still takes,
[00:20:55] [SPEAKER_01]: well, it's always going to end in his favor, right? Right. Right. He's giving you the pleasure of
[00:21:00] [SPEAKER_01]: maybe agreeing to what he's going to do anyway. Yes. But, but, uh, it's what makes him fascinating.
[00:21:07] [SPEAKER_01]: It's a remarkable piece of writing and, um, and it, it really is one of those central parts of this
[00:21:16] [SPEAKER_01]: arc that, that defines who he is. I think it does. Kelly, you, you touch on something, a thread that
[00:21:21] [SPEAKER_00]: I'd like to pull on a little bit there when you said there's a moment when it seems like he
[00:21:27] [SPEAKER_00]: is human or might be human. Um, I, I guess it's kind of a, a bit of an abstract question,
[00:21:35] [SPEAKER_01]: but is Dracula human? Oh yeah. That's what's so frightening. He's absolutely a hundred percent.
[00:21:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Sure. We're, we're, you could have him described as sociopathic. You could have him described as
[00:21:47] [SPEAKER_01]: aristocratic. You can describe him however you want. Miguel maniacal. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, but he doesn't
[00:21:52] [SPEAKER_01]: cackle. He doesn't rub his hands together and say, I'll do evil. He thinks he's doing good.
[00:21:58] [SPEAKER_02]: He thinks that's what's doing good is doing, doing the only thing he knows how to do, which is,
[00:22:03] [SPEAKER_02]: which is achieve what he wants, you know? Yeah. We've discussed a little bit the,
[00:22:08] [SPEAKER_00]: you know, the kind of the, one of the larger overarching issues that you had with the Coppola
[00:22:14] [SPEAKER_00]: version specifically. Um, there obviously there've been a lot of Dracula and vampire stories over the
[00:22:21] [SPEAKER_00]: years. Um, what, what's your sense of who's gotten it correct or who's got, who's cued the
[00:22:26] [SPEAKER_00]: closest or who's gotten the closest to what you're trying to accomplish with this work?
[00:22:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Us. Yeah. Okay. That's it. I mean, in the end, that's the only reason for us to do this is the
[00:22:37] [SPEAKER_02]: fact that all the other versions we love so much never quite hit the nail exactly.
[00:22:41] [SPEAKER_01]: All the versions I've loved are aspects of the book that they exploit. There are elements of it here or
[00:22:48] [SPEAKER_01]: there, but no one's put it all together. Just, I would say the same as Frankenstein. No one's put
[00:22:53] [SPEAKER_01]: it all together. There's been a few close ones on Frankenstein closer than, than Dracula. Um,
[00:23:00] [SPEAKER_01]: but Dracula has never had that, uh, the, the, the, all of the things that Stoker did are,
[00:23:08] [SPEAKER_01]: I can't find a version that does all.
[00:23:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Even the ones that claim to be the closest adaptations, you know, of course,
[00:23:15] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, the Bram Stoker's Dracula, the Coppola version we were just talking about. Uh, I, I have a
[00:23:21] [SPEAKER_02]: real love hate relationship with that film because, uh, a, you know, it portends to be a romance story.
[00:23:27] [SPEAKER_02]: It's not a romance story. There's nothing romantic in the book. Um, I think the casting is all terrible.
[00:23:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Just absolutely.
[00:23:34] [SPEAKER_02]: You don't think Keanu is a good, uh, romantic lead and, uh, well, both, both, both he and Winona are just
[00:23:40] [SPEAKER_02]: couldn't be less convincing as Brits. Uh, Anthony Hopkins can't decide what he wants his tone to be
[00:23:47] [SPEAKER_02]: for Van Helsing. He's all over the board. You know, it's only in many, many viewings that I
[00:23:51] [SPEAKER_02]: finally figured out that I think we're supposed to assume that Van Helsing is syphilitic.
[00:23:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.
[00:23:55] [SPEAKER_02]: He's beginning to keep talking about venereal diseases and that would lead to him, you know,
[00:23:59] [SPEAKER_02]: sometimes laughing out royally, uh, outrageously in inappropriate moments,
[00:24:04] [SPEAKER_02]: saying inappropriate things. Um, um, and Oldman is never once scary as Dracula,
[00:24:11] [SPEAKER_02]: scarier commanding as Dracula, uh, especially once he gets to London. Then he's just this like
[00:24:16] [SPEAKER_02]: fool for love, you know, at one point she, she leaves and goes to marry once Harker makes it to a,
[00:24:22] [SPEAKER_02]: this, uh, escapes the castle and makes it to this, uh, nunnery in Romania. She leaves to go marry him
[00:24:28] [SPEAKER_02]: and, and Dracula is like, you know, raging and weeping. And there's like, you know,
[00:24:33] [SPEAKER_02]: just tears streaming down his vampiric face. Let me just say, Dracula doesn't fucking weep.
[00:24:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Dracula doesn't weep. And, uh,
[00:24:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, and if he does, I just love,
[00:24:44] [SPEAKER_02]: I love his filmmaking in that film, you know, the old school approach to filmmaking,
[00:24:51] [SPEAKER_02]: his absolute adherence to no CGI, to using classic cinema.
[00:24:55] [SPEAKER_00]: It's a beautiful film like that.
[00:24:57] [SPEAKER_00]: You can't argue.
[00:24:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. And a lot of the visualizations, they get really clever and right, you know,
[00:25:03] [SPEAKER_01]: no, if it comes down to it, it's going to be Christopher Lee's version that you go, okay,
[00:25:07] [SPEAKER_01]: there's the aristocratic yet very savage character. Yeah. Um, imperious, everything is towards his own
[00:25:15] [SPEAKER_01]: ends. There's never one bit of sentimentality in him. Uh, he fakes being a human being or fakes
[00:25:22] [SPEAKER_01]: human feelings. Um, but none of those, none of those films are, are Stoker.
[00:25:27] [SPEAKER_01]: No, not at all. And I think, I think that's where I say they just take bits and pieces.
[00:25:32] [SPEAKER_02]: They often point to a BBC film version, uh,
[00:25:35] [SPEAKER_02]: starring Louis Jordan in the mid seventies as being one of the closest adaptations.
[00:25:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Narratively, it's pretty close.
[00:25:40] [SPEAKER_02]: The same time, Louis Jordan's hair.
[00:25:43] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's like, it's like he's, it's like he stepped out of the 1970s barbershop. No,
[00:25:48] [SPEAKER_02]: a 1960s barbershop, you know? Yeah.
[00:25:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Force modernity. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:25:52] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure that you're aware though. There's, there's some irony in trying to do a very faithful
[00:25:58] [SPEAKER_00]: adaptation while not actually directly adapting the text itself, kind of working around it.
[00:26:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's all. Yeah. We embrace that irony
[00:26:09] [SPEAKER_02]: because again, we feel like it's all been done before, you know, and we're trying to do the
[00:26:14] [SPEAKER_01]: stuff that wasn't done before. Yeah. And I, and I, the best thing I'm hearing already from people
[00:26:19] [SPEAKER_01]: who've read it is it absolutely feels like Dracula. It doesn't feel like we're doing something like
[00:26:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Matt's thing or my thing or whatever it's, this is Dracula. And it's like, uh, hopefully you'll get
[00:26:33] [SPEAKER_01]: that same feeling I used to get that, uh, when I see something like this is the true story of
[00:26:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Dracula, Frank or whatever. And then you go read the book and you go, this isn't at all. You hope
[00:26:43] [SPEAKER_01]: that people will read ours and go, yeah, that's Matt made these points in the story.
[00:26:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. A guy I know just sent me a link to, sent me a link to a review he published online. And, uh,
[00:26:55] [SPEAKER_02]: and I thought it was a, just a, a very, uh, uh, glowing review at the end. It said,
[00:26:59] [SPEAKER_02]: because when I got to the end of the book, I immediately wanted more. Yeah. Just, I want
[00:27:05] [SPEAKER_01]: more right now. Like this, this, this just had me, you know, I like that because that's how I felt
[00:27:10] [SPEAKER_01]: when I, when he sent me the first script, when he sent that to me, I remember reading it thinking,
[00:27:15] [SPEAKER_01]: this is wonderful. It's great. I was dancing around the house and I thought, damn, it's going to be
[00:27:21] [SPEAKER_01]: how long until everybody else gets to see this. Yeah. Yeah. But it's a, it's a very intentional
[00:27:26] [SPEAKER_00]: decision not to adapt the story itself. Yeah. Yeah. Because again, been done in films so many
[00:27:35] [SPEAKER_02]: times, I won't say none of them are correct, but didn't been done in comics a lot. If you look
[00:27:40] [SPEAKER_01]: around, there's, there's lots of comic adaptations. I, I, I took that as then on the first go around,
[00:27:46] [SPEAKER_01]: they're first going to have to trust Matt and I's reputation. Yeah. That's the first thing they have
[00:27:51] [SPEAKER_01]: to trust. Once they see that it's, it's not, you know, some kind of helter skelter thing,
[00:27:57] [SPEAKER_01]: then Matt and I recede and Dracula takes over. Yeah. A reputation is a, is a good way of putting
[00:28:02] [SPEAKER_01]: it. And, and that just opened the doors. That's, that's like the actor you want to see in a movie.
[00:28:06] [SPEAKER_01]: And then the movie is so good. You forget the actor. And that's what I want.
[00:28:09] [SPEAKER_00]: That's obviously the, the, the faith that people need to have in both of you as creators,
[00:28:14] [SPEAKER_00]: especially in order to invest in that first Kickstarter. But I guess what's,
[00:28:19] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to say surprising because I know, listen, I know how shitty the comics industry
[00:28:24] [SPEAKER_00]: and how shitty publishers can be, but that you're both known quantities that, that obviously Dracula
[00:28:29] [SPEAKER_00]: is a known quantity and you still feel like there wasn't a platform for you to do this the way that
[00:28:36] [SPEAKER_02]: you wanted to do this. Okay. So, so Kelly keeps bringing that up. I don't quite feel that because,
[00:28:42] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, Kelly's worked mainly for the big publishers and I've, I've worked mainly not,
[00:28:46] [SPEAKER_02]: I've worked mainly independently. So I was confident we'd find a publisher, but again, we, I,
[00:28:52] [SPEAKER_02]: from my point of view, it was like, well, I've been kind of at the forefront of independent
[00:28:55] [SPEAKER_02]: publishing for 40 plus years, you know, and now we have this brand new model, uh, this new platform
[00:29:01] [SPEAKER_02]: for doing independent publishing. And I wanted to try my hand at that. Um, now, uh, at the same time,
[00:29:08] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, we knew, we knew as cool and as modern and as far reaching as a Kickstarter campaign can
[00:29:19] [SPEAKER_02]: be. Some people only have their eyes on their local comic book store or their online, uh, retailer or,
[00:29:25] [SPEAKER_02]: uh, the publishers they know and love. So we knew we wanted to also reach out via a traditional
[00:29:31] [SPEAKER_02]: publisher. That's why, uh, we approached Dark Horse Comics. I've worked with Dark Horse for over 30
[00:29:37] [SPEAKER_02]: years. They published Grendel for 35 years, 35 plus years now. And, uh, and I knew they would give
[00:29:43] [SPEAKER_02]: us the freedom we wanted and, uh, and the quality we wanted. And, uh, uh, so they're releasing a trade
[00:29:49] [SPEAKER_02]: paperback version that just came out, uh, today, in fact, on Wednesday, the, uh, no, I've had, I had no
[00:29:55] [SPEAKER_01]: worries with Dark Horse. My, my concern was I wanted no one between me and Matt. I wanted, I didn't want
[00:30:00] [SPEAKER_01]: to hear a third voice say, you can't do this or you shouldn't do that, or this is a problem or
[00:30:04] [SPEAKER_01]: whatever. Um, yeah, we had, we had absolutely none of that. And there was none of that, but going
[00:30:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Dark Horse removed from it, that was going to happen anywhere else. Okay. That, that was just
[00:30:15] [SPEAKER_01]: going to happen. And yeah, certainly if it was DC or a larger publisher, well, certainly I, I just
[00:30:22] [SPEAKER_01]: felt that, uh, something authentic and sincere at the level we were doing would immediately connect
[00:30:29] [SPEAKER_02]: with a readership immediately. I mean, to put that in perspective, the last project I did for DC
[00:30:35] [SPEAKER_02]: was an eight page story I did for Superman red and blue, the, the, uh, color, uh, short series they
[00:30:42] [SPEAKER_02]: did a number just a few years ago. And it was an eight page story and I, I said it in the golden age,
[00:30:48] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, in the Fleischer era and oh my God, the notes I got back from their proofreader,
[00:30:53] [SPEAKER_02]: which was all just modern speak, you know, like we should be cautious about the use of this food and
[00:31:00] [SPEAKER_02]: we, you know, and luckily the editor said, yeah, we're ignoring all these notes. Don't, don't worry.
[00:31:07] [SPEAKER_00]: I absolutely agree from the standpoint that it seems like you can't just have a purely evil character
[00:31:15] [SPEAKER_00]: these days that they do have to have redeeming qualities. And, and that, and that is something,
[00:31:22] [SPEAKER_01]: um, you won't find him. You don't want, yeah, you don't, you don't want that out of a Dracula,
[00:31:26] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, you don't, you don't, you don't disagree. We, we, you can't, he doesn't have to have
[00:31:30] [SPEAKER_02]: redeeming qualities. He needs to have recognizable quality. Yeah. Yeah. He needs to, he needs to be a
[00:31:36] [SPEAKER_01]: sort of person that we recognize. Um, Oh no. And that's why the women who wanted to be
[00:31:42] [SPEAKER_01]: the models for what I was doing all loved what Matt was writing. They absolutely understood
[00:31:49] [SPEAKER_01]: the power of this man. They were, they, it was a very female response to just reading this. I hadn't
[00:31:57] [SPEAKER_01]: drawn a thing and that, that is overlooked when you're putting a project together. Everyone's going
[00:32:04] [SPEAKER_01]: to worry and all that. The ones I met were going, if I please put me in this and I go, and I had to say,
[00:32:11] [SPEAKER_01]: take me a bride of Dracula. Yes. I said, horrible things will happen to you and horrible things are,
[00:32:17] [SPEAKER_01]: you're going to do your character at least. So the character, you know, they didn't care. They,
[00:32:22] [SPEAKER_01]: they, they loved this. I let them read the first one and I let them read up to what was going to
[00:32:27] [SPEAKER_01]: happen to, to in the characters is basing it on. And the reason I was doing that is Matt,
[00:32:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Matt did the brides out of whole cloth. He just made up and did because there's so little on him.
[00:32:38] [SPEAKER_01]: So I didn't want to look at anything myself. I wanted to go and say, well, if he's doing that,
[00:32:43] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm jettisoning everything. And I got to think of, of how these characters physically hold themselves,
[00:32:50] [SPEAKER_01]: their gestures, their, the acting I would have to do. And I thought real people, that's the first
[00:32:56] [SPEAKER_01]: thing I thought is real people instead of something. Idealized. Yeah. And because Matt's were so,
[00:33:03] [SPEAKER_01]: when I read them, I could see them. So instantly when I read them, I went, oh, that's reminds me
[00:33:08] [SPEAKER_01]: of this gallon. That reminds me that the way they, they are. Uh, but, uh, let me tell you, they,
[00:33:15] [SPEAKER_01]: they, they loved what Matt's Dracula was even as horrible as he was. They believed it. And that,
[00:33:23] [SPEAKER_01]: and that's something they're not comic book people, right? They're, they're civilians,
[00:33:27] [SPEAKER_01]: civilians. Yeah. Civilians. So when they read it, they believed it and they kept at first they thought,
[00:33:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Matt, when I did this, uh, one of them had thought, well, why would someone making a movie
[00:33:40] [SPEAKER_01]: show you this? I said, no, no, no, it's, and I said, it's comic book. And they go, yeah,
[00:33:47] [SPEAKER_01]: cause you wouldn't see this in a movie. Right. You won't. I'm always curious, you know,
[00:33:52] [SPEAKER_00]: in, in a collaboration like this, um, Kelly specifically, what is your role in creating,
[00:33:58] [SPEAKER_01]: or at least fleshing out those characters? Uh, they have to, for me, they have to be
[00:34:08] [SPEAKER_01]: absolutely believable before all the crazy stuff starts. And Matt does that by explaining who they
[00:34:16] [SPEAKER_01]: are each one, whether it's even the girls in this, uh, all the characters dealing with Dracula.
[00:34:23] [SPEAKER_01]: He, he does that. He gives who they are, what their motivations are, uh, their court, all these
[00:34:28] [SPEAKER_01]: things there, there it's all there. So they begin to, they begin to become alive in my head. Um,
[00:34:35] [SPEAKER_01]: I've always, like I said, I've always linked working with Matt, like he's this great songwriter
[00:34:40] [SPEAKER_01]: producer and he wants me to be the lead singer. So I have to hear what he said.
[00:34:45] [SPEAKER_01]: And the band and the band with the symbols.
[00:34:52] [SPEAKER_01]: But, but that's really what it is. And so I listened to what he says and then front it.
[00:34:57] [SPEAKER_01]: And that that's really what it is. You front it because, uh, Matt does this enormous amount of
[00:35:03] [SPEAKER_01]: work that readers will never know other than the reaction to what it is I draw. And if I don't get
[00:35:08] [SPEAKER_01]: it right, they won't react to it. Right. So I have to have them react the way I'm reacting when I
[00:35:13] [SPEAKER_01]: read it and when I talk to them. Um, and I suspect part of that comes from Matt, you know, you're,
[00:35:19] [SPEAKER_02]: you also being an artist. Yeah. Yeah, very much. Uh, uh, I, I always attribute that to my,
[00:35:27] [SPEAKER_02]: uh, ability to work with other artists as I, I know what they're, I know what they're capable of,
[00:35:32] [SPEAKER_02]: but I also know, like, I don't want to overwrite descriptions. I don't write Alan Moore scripts.
[00:35:38] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I write, I write stuff and keep it pretty brief. Um, uh, uh, I'm looking here at one
[00:35:48] [SPEAKER_02]: of my scripts to give you a, uh, so, uh, when I'm writing a script, uh, the description for the panel,
[00:35:56] [SPEAKER_02]: I always, uh, put in capital letters, the first several words to try and just nail down
[00:36:03] [SPEAKER_02]: the gesture, the moment, then the rest is just detail, but I try to keep it brief. So here,
[00:36:10] [SPEAKER_02]: panel six capital letters, Dracula leaves regular, regular font, uh, case glancing over his shoulder
[00:36:17] [SPEAKER_02]: at the young woman as she starts to clean up. So, you know, Dracula leaves, that's the moment,
[00:36:23] [SPEAKER_02]: that's what's happening. The rest, young woman cleaning up, that's the background detail.
[00:36:28] [SPEAKER_02]: And I don't really describe much other than that. That's left for Kelly to fill in. And,
[00:36:32] [SPEAKER_02]: and he does it magnificently. You know, I, I constantly, I've talked about this before. I,
[00:36:37] [SPEAKER_02]: I write these scenes thinking Kelly's going to nail this. Kelly's going to just kill this.
[00:36:43] [SPEAKER_02]: And then it comes in and it's even better than I could have hoped it was going to be,
[00:36:47] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, uh, because he takes, he takes what I, he takes what I don't describe and he provides,
[00:36:53] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, there's a scene.
[00:36:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Matt doesn't work. Matt doesn't work by tropes. He just writes. And so I don't, I'm not,
[00:36:59] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not constrained by what people expect.
[00:37:03] [SPEAKER_02]: There's a scene here in the brides. Uh, there's one of the brides he has to work at a little harder
[00:37:08] [SPEAKER_02]: to get her and, uh, and it takes a while, you know? And when he finally gets her, he's feeding on
[00:37:15] [SPEAKER_02]: her. And I only just noticed this the other day. I was looking at Kelly's pencils for that page
[00:37:19] [SPEAKER_02]: and I realized, Oh shit. You know, he's, he has the girl bent over. He's just ravaging her.
[00:37:25] [SPEAKER_02]: And I noticed that Kelly had drawn in that she's bleeding from like six different places.
[00:37:30] [SPEAKER_02]: So he didn't just bite her neck. He bought her here. He bit her here in a, in a throw of passion
[00:37:34] [SPEAKER_02]: with, yeah, which makes total sense. And yet I didn't describe that. I just kind of described how,
[00:37:41] [SPEAKER_02]: how, you know, how voraciously he was attacking her. Kelly took that and made it concrete and made it,
[00:37:47] [SPEAKER_02]: uh, specific and made it visual. And, uh, well, that's, that's, that's why we are such a great
[00:37:53] [SPEAKER_01]: combination. We just, we just, yeah, I think that when Matt wrote it, it, it, it's, uh, the other
[00:37:59] [SPEAKER_01]: girls have their agendas, but when you get to this one, um, Matt did it over time where you see seasons
[00:38:06] [SPEAKER_01]: change. And, and, uh, at that point I, I, I thought, well, every guy can relate to that. You're
[00:38:13] [SPEAKER_01]: pursuing the girl for so long. And then finally, when that moment comes, it's going to be bursting
[00:38:19] [SPEAKER_00]: out of your skin. Yeah. There's one thing that Dracula has it's timed. Yeah. Oh no, no shit.
[00:38:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. Yep. Yeah. But this, this guy even confounds him in that regard in a little bit. I won't
[00:38:32] [SPEAKER_00]: really say more than that, but yeah. Why was it so important for you, Matt, when he set out
[00:38:38] [SPEAKER_00]: that this be four books, that this be longer than just a single piece? Um, because there
[00:38:46] [SPEAKER_02]: was that much, uh, that much space. Once I started looking around, I, I was just like, okay, this
[00:38:51] [SPEAKER_02]: part's unanswered, this part's unexplored, this part's undescribed, this part's, uh, uh, uh,
[00:39:03] [SPEAKER_02]: unfiltered, you know? I mean, there were just that many. And I will say,
[00:39:06] [SPEAKER_02]: hey, it's four as it stands now. If we get into book four and all of a sudden I have a great idea
[00:39:12] [SPEAKER_01]: for another one, we'll keep going. Um, yeah. And, and we only know in the book, it's only like
[00:39:18] [SPEAKER_01]: a year of this, but Dracula's life is 400. 400 plus. Yeah. Yep. But it's really, at least so far,
[00:39:24] [SPEAKER_00]: it's, uh, in a sense that the book, the Stoker book is kind of the nucleus of these stories that
[00:39:30] [SPEAKER_02]: you're telling. Yeah, very much so. Yep. Yeah. I mean, again, we try to stick closely. One,
[00:39:36] [SPEAKER_02]: uh, one of the, one of the greatest strokes we got right out of the gate was, uh, when
[00:39:40] [SPEAKER_02]: we announced this, uh, on, uh, X, uh, we had a response from, uh, Leslie Klinger, who
[00:39:47] [SPEAKER_02]: is considered one of the world's foremost Dracula scholars. Uh, he wrote the, uh, new
[00:39:53] [SPEAKER_02]: annotated Dracula. He wrote the annotated Frankenstein, Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. Um, uh, he wrote the
[00:40:00] [SPEAKER_02]: annotated, uh, the latest annotated Sherlock Holmes. So the guy knows his shit. And, uh,
[00:40:07] [SPEAKER_02]: he said, uh, Oh, this is very exciting. I would kind of love to be part of this anyway.
[00:40:12] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, you see fit. And I said, well, Les, I have all your books and I would, uh, I would
[00:40:16] [SPEAKER_02]: love to send you a copy and get your feedback, even if it's not good. And, uh, and he gave us
[00:40:23] [SPEAKER_02]: this glowing comment about how this is totally canonical and yet it's all brand new. And so that
[00:40:29] [SPEAKER_02]: was, I just felt like we passed Dracula one-on-one with an A plus on that one.
[00:40:32] [SPEAKER_00]: On that note, and obviously this is a multi-year project. Um, you know, you can't give too much
[00:40:39] [SPEAKER_00]: thought probably to bigger projects down the line, but do you feel like this approach is
[00:40:45] [SPEAKER_00]: something that you could apply to like a Frankenstein, for example?
[00:40:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Um, no. I mean, if you've ever read Frankenstein, the narrative isn't quite the same. The, uh,
[00:40:58] [SPEAKER_02]: uh, the monster himself, of course the monster in the book, the creature, I guess is a better
[00:41:03] [SPEAKER_02]: description in the book. Isn't the, uh, uh, wordless, uh, shambling, uh, uh, uh, monster that
[00:41:11] [SPEAKER_02]: he is in most of the film versions. Uh, he has an intellect. He, once, once he kind of gets over the,
[00:41:17] [SPEAKER_02]: the, uh, shock and imbalance of his resurrection, uh, he learns to read and write again. He keeps a
[00:41:24] [SPEAKER_02]: journal when he runs into Frankenstein here and there over the course of their, uh, uh,
[00:41:30] [SPEAKER_02]: cat and mouse kind of relationship for the rest of their lives. Uh, he describes very eloquently
[00:41:35] [SPEAKER_02]: everything that has happened to him. Uh, at the same time, you know, the, the book ends very
[00:41:40] [SPEAKER_02]: ambiguously, the monster, we don't see the monster destroyed, so you could do further adventures of
[00:41:45] [SPEAKER_02]: the monster, but I don't feel that there's as much untold in that, in that.
[00:41:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. I think that the only thing I've read about Frankenstein away from it was a great short story
[00:41:55] [SPEAKER_01]: by Howard Walpole called black as a pit from pole to pole. And it's, it's a short story. Um, but it's
[00:42:03] [SPEAKER_01]: what happens after when he, he goes into like a journey to the center of the earth thing and he
[00:42:09] [SPEAKER_01]: deals with the different levels until he comes out at the other end. It, it, it's absolutely brilliant.
[00:42:15] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's about all that, but it's a short, it it's, you know, maybe a novella size, but that's
[00:42:21] [SPEAKER_01]: the only thing I've read where it felt like Shelley's creature. And has he, as he went through
[00:42:27] [SPEAKER_01]: all these different, uh, uh, uh, worlds, it w it was quite good, but that's it. And, and I think that
[00:42:35] [SPEAKER_01]: was to Matt's point, it would be after the fact, it would be whatever happened. I guess Matt could
[00:42:40] [SPEAKER_01]: write all the bits and pieces of him, what their, those people's lives were until they were cut
[00:42:45] [SPEAKER_00]: up and put together, but, but the creature's lifespan. Yeah. But the creature's lifespan
[00:42:49] [SPEAKER_00]: just isn't near where Dracula is. So there just isn't that much. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So,
[00:42:55] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, uh, in regards to this, you know, Stephen King breaks up, uh, the archetypes of horror into
[00:43:00] [SPEAKER_02]: the classic big three, Dracula, Frankenstein, and the wolf man with a subset of what he calls the ghost,
[00:43:05] [SPEAKER_02]: which, uh, can exist on its own, but can also fit into those other three. And basically what that is,
[00:43:11] [SPEAKER_02]: is, uh, Dracula is the, uh, the seductive pestilence that consumes the, uh, the, uh, Frankenstein's
[00:43:18] [SPEAKER_02]: monster is the, uh, the, the creature with no name, the thing with no name. And of course the
[00:43:24] [SPEAKER_02]: werewolf is the raging beast within that, that could be Jekyll and Hyde as well. And of those three,
[00:43:31] [SPEAKER_02]: both, uh, Frankenstein and the wolf man lament what they are, you know, Dracula doesn't lament what
[00:43:36] [SPEAKER_02]: he is. He likes it. Well, their blood tastes good, right?